I'm starting to think that society is very slowly falling back into a society divided clearly by class.
The lower classes seem to have a lot more disregard for the higher classes now than at other times in my life, I feel, but are now proud about it and don't want to move up. Why? Look at your children for gods sake.
And there's simply more of them now. there's more scum at schools, more kids on streets, more people who'd pick a fight with you for no reason at all (if you wave at them on a bus, as I found out, for example). Sometimes it's even a question of kids going DOWN to that level of person.
Even (this is going to sound bad) at Universities. I've only been an HE student for 7 months and already I'm starting to feel certain people at my Uni just don't belong/deserve-to-be there.

Is this just me? Can anyone else do a better job putting what I'm trying to say into words? Or elaborate on it?

Im seriously lower class..well im from a lower working class background..

I think theres a difference that your not seem to be noticing between Chavs/Pikeys/Scallys and Working Class Lower people..you seem to be blending them together into one.

Not all Lower class are scum...Lower class are normally categorised by the amount of money they earn..By this reasoning my family is seriously lower class..yet this doesnt make us scum..were very polite and friendly and not one of us would hurt a fly,yet my parents were never the brightest.bless em.

I know where your coming from Love Libs but im not sure,and as youve admitted it yourself,that you have used the right words..And to say that some people look like they dont deserve to be at uni??..well i disagree..if they earned the right to be there then they have just as much rights to a better eduacation as you have regardless of there habitual/financial background.

Oh an rethink your subtitle.."this is not for the poor"..thats terribly snobby..dont get me wrong i thought the others song was a loada bollocks to.and many people dont want to be poor.they just are and think they should make the most of it...and cos there usually brainless and stupid they think the all important thing is a reputation...usually gained by Anti Social Behaviour...

As i said..i completely understand where your coming from though.I think your just generalising to much though in my humble opinion.

It has been for years capitalism encourages division by class and wealth.


"The lower classes seem to have a lot more disregard for the higher classes now than at other times in my life, I feel, but are now proud about it and don't want to move up. Why? Look at your children for gods sake. "
I find that statement a little patronising I consider myself working class ok I may be educated working class but essentially my background is that of a working class ethos, my grandad was a miner , I was brought up in and around normal hard working families.
I think your confusing a prejudice you ahve about certain groups in society we all have prejudices with a whole group of different and varied people.

"And there's simply more of them now. there's more scum at schools, more kids on streets, more people who'd pick a fight with you for no reason at all (if you wave at them on a bus, as I found out, for example). Sometimes it's even a question of kids going DOWN to that level of person.
Even (this is going to sound bad) at Universities. I've only been an HE student for 7 months and already I'm starting to feel certain people at my Uni just don't belong/deserve-to-be there."
Is that really confined to the working classes though I know loads of middle and upper class students who dont really deserve to be in university because they dont value it.
Going "DOWN" to that level thats just conformity you see it everywalk of life not just in the lower classes as you put it.
Also I know what you mean about violence to some its a way of activing out their feelings because they have poor communication skills.They have little options in life they are often bored, alienated and dont things to look forward to in their lives so they fall back into a group mentality.I have suffered at the hands of one such person ove rthree years ago I was attacked for little reason.This doesnt make me want to write off a whole class though. I think you are generalising here somewhat Tim even though I know where your coming from.

gotta love predjudices.

usually its the upper classes who dont deserve to be at uni. theyve free-loaded their lives from mummy and daddy and been coddled in private schools, and then go to uni and expect to get a free ride and spend all their money within a term

im not saying all are like that, but more often than not, the lower class uni students know they and their parents have had to work hard to get where they are, and dont wanna waste the opportunity before them.

i agree with Queuman - financially poor does not =/= scally kids. wealth doesnt come into it - its upbringing. you can be brought up in the scummiest area possible, and still be completely non-scally.

yep.... gotta love predjudices....

a point i forgot to make..you abviously have less and less respect for the lower class.surely your being hypocritical?..i mean cos ur doing the same as them by widening the class gap?..
And the way you wrote that implies you mean that is that the lower classes should look upto he higher classes??..why should they?!..because they have more money and wear better clothes??..

I can guarantee that they are not proud of it..if they had it there way then they would be happy and living comfortably..Most lower class 'scum' dont choose their way of life,or often their way of thinkin for that matter,they are born into it and moulded that way by the society around them....

oh richey.....

I'm from an aristocratic family and i'm proud of it. Not proud neccessarily that they are aristocratic but proud that i've had certain privelidges that I may not have had if my family were different. But it's also been bloody hard. My family lost all there money in Lloyds, it was a struggle growing up especially being at boarding school. (waiting for some sarcy remark) Luckily a trust fund had been set up for me til the age of 17 so that my education was paid for. My school actually let my parents off the last year of fees because they knew that I'd have to leave half way through my a levels otherwise.

I hate the whole sloaney thing and have never hung out with people like that. I've always felt like the odd one out. I'm either to 'posh' or not 'posh' enough. Just because my family are titled does not make me any different. If anything people are more judgemental. I grew up being passed between parents/grandparents, 12 schools, family heroin addiction I sometimes wish that my family were 'normal' working class.

The middle classes - now they are annoying!

isn't that same whatever class, religion, country you live in? It's what you know
am i making sense?

@ sexy lady - i went to a private grammar school for 4 years.

im not predudiced against the upper classes. i have lived 2 eras of my life - 1 around lower classes, 1 around the richer.

i was always thought of rich around the poorer, and poor around the richer. my dad has made all his money himself - both my parents are from really lower class backgrounds. however, ive never been given much money of my own to play around with.

me to - the two eras thing.

im a posh wanker

Yeh i completely agree.That's the point I was making,don't be too harsh on the lower class,its not always their fault.They often get caught into a spiral of being sent to a dodgy comprehensive school because financially they can't afford to go anywhere else and thus dont learn anything,and as you said: "its what you know"..They know nothing because of the school they went to.Sometimes it's not always someones fault they turn out the way they do.

An sexy lady?..well your lucky to have been born into a comfortable lifestyle apart.Well apart from the drug thing of course,well in my opinion thats pretty much universal throughout the classes.My families completely split and ruined because my uncle commited suicide on a Heroin overdose on christmas day several years ago, and we sometimes wish that maybe if we had had more money then we could have helped him with say medical treatment or something similar?.

Without trying to sound arrogant I do honestly believe im in a really good position to comment.I live in a shithole area,and I mean REALLY BAD!!..yet I got lucky,I ended up at one of the top schools in the country..which mainly consisted of posh kids who looked down on me because i only had one pair of school pants.Honest!!.. yet there were obviously some who were not prejudice and lovely chappies.

I do agree with some of the comments Richey made.It does sometimes sicken me to the stomach when I look at the way the self confessed "Daddys girls" etc.. stroll about splashing the cash because of that silver spoon they were born with..
On the other hand i have to spend as little as possible and work until 3am at a bar 4 nights a week to maintain my health and stay on at uni...It gets me really jealous sometimes...

Yet i dont begrudge either class...in my opinion you get two extremes that people often associate with each class as a given..For example people presume that lower classes are all chavs..Well i feel that chavs are the extreme bad side of the Lower class persona...and you get the snobs of the higher classes...Snobbery is often mistaken for having alot of money wheras snobbery is in my opinion when someone just judges you on your material possesions etc...so by this reckoning ANYONE can be a snob...yet it is usually a richer person hence the ill adivsed presumption Rich=Snob and the same with the lower class and the mispresumption that they are all Chavs..

Does anyone see where im coming from?..I hope I made sense!!

I apologise for the whole 'lumping' them together thing, I did mean to make distinctions but it was about 2:30 and it's not well worded.

With your quote there, you've highlighted a point I'd like to make. It's that people born into that level (the level we don't speak of) have their way of life and thinking moulded without the choice....isn;t that unfair>
Also it is that very type of society which I'm trying to suggest is on the increase. The reasons for, I'm not sure, but I don't see that as a good thing.

Another thing. I certainly didn't say financially poor = chav. at all. Yet that's become the gospel gist of my post, apparantly.

And Bill, the conformity thing - I was trying to say that it's almost become cool to look like chav scum....which is terrible.

But the real thing which you've all fallen for is to actually have a hotly debated thread in The Day Today forum!

What's that Richey? Gotta love prejudices?

This is a very interesting topic. I don't have much to add except that the boundaries between classes are visibly growing. It's such a shame that people automatically associate the 'working-class' with chav culture, therefore so many of my old primary school friends were pretty much forced to become violent, unlikeable people.

Nah its ok about the whole lumping together thing..it wasnt intentional and i admit i brought up the idea regarding the financial aspect..yet this was due to a misunderstanding from your first post that kinda lumped the two things together so i thought you were implying that..sorry.

Im not prejudice..i just meant to say i can see where pejudices come from by saying i do sometimes get a slight bit jealous of the easier life..

Ill admit that this is probably the most intriguing post ive met so far..
congrats to you!

1. do you understand sarcasm?

2. he's talking about the SELF CONFESSED ones.

and they do exist in abundance. i went to a private grammar school for 4 years, and i was surrounded by the fuckers. people drivin to school in their 25 grand cars when theyre 17. its sick.